Rangers and Black Lives Matter

Am I the only one wondering why our team and management are now showing support for an organisation which wishes to dismantle capitalism and abolish the police. Without capitalism it is unlikely that highly- paid footballers would earn a fraction of their current earnings, and I am baffled that anyone at our great football Club considers it a good idea to have a society with no police. Presumably if they get burgled in the middle of the night, they will advise the house breakers they are supporters of BLM and hope that this scares them off. I fully abhor any racist actions and applaud the ‘Show racism the red card’ initiative, but I cannot support the actions of the players and management in their hypocritical actions. I do, of course, condemn racist behaviour as I believe the vast majority of our fans do. Please do not bring the Club into disrepute by this ‘taking the knee’ nonsense. What next - placards saying “Abolish the Police” and “Abolish Capitalism”.

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I think it is a conundrum for the club to speak out on political matters. There has been a lot of racism thrown at ALFREDO in particular and my guess is, there will be people with knowledge about the backbone of that movement, like you and I , who disagree and don’t appreciate their views . But I see it as their taking the politics out of it and showing that indeed , black lives matter in the sense racism must stop at football grounds etc. I’m with you on this. I despise the backbone of that movement and it has conned people and their is an Islamic alliance to it which is worrying. But with all the abuse players have had - in english grounds too this season and last ,I think it’s more about making a stand for their players. Stop racism. We must support the club& our players on this though, & I doubt anyone at ibrox has the views of the real BLM. Some people aren’t as knowledgeable either on this matter. All lives matter but racial abuse against players must stop the whole of Scotland has us as the poisonous bigots when actually the bigotry comes from the east end and beyond.

Sorry JimMcD I think you need to have a long hard look at yourself. There is nothing in the Black Lives Matter movement about those things you seem to connect it with. If black people have been feeling marginalised and in fear of different treatment due to their skin colour and their team mates and colleagues want to support them in saying enough is enough then why does it bother you so much? You are using propoganda 101 and fake news by deflection from the real issue and hanging unfounded labels on a movement that has come about because of years of mistreatment and systemic racism in society that you, my friend, clearly have no experience or grasp of. I am trying very hard to be polite but your statement above completely misses the point and if you don’t support the black players in the team, it is their fight after all, then you should just say so, don’t try to label them as anarchists. It is the system of systemic racism they are raging against, which includes police brutality and financial and opportunity inequality as part of that. I am glad that you feel compelled to post this hear so that your views and opinions are able to be challenged by others and hopefully you take the comments as education and move on. It is not your fight and it certainly is not yours to fight against. Personally I think all Rangers fans should support any of our black players and colleagues at work who choose to take a stand as they clearly have something very important to say. It is your job to listen.

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I don’t have a problem with black life’s Matter other than why did the hitch their wagon up to a five times
convicted felon namely George Floyd. If it was anyone’s fault for his death it was the stinking and corrupt American legal system the man should not have been walking the streets?
His last sentence was a five stretch for selling drugs
The sentence before that was for robbery where he stuck a gun into a pregnant womans guts and threatened to kill her ECT ECT ECT I will not mention his under 21record as they were atrocious as well. The problem with BLM organization is they can’t have a March without a shopping list?
“On the point of people on their knees” Go down to the side of the Clyde and look at the monument for the Glasgow Lads that were killed in the Spanish Civil War it quite simply says.
“Better to die on your feet than live forever on your knees”.

Why do football clubs in the UK care about BLM? OH! Because if they do not virtue signal they will be run through the ringer.
Welcome to the Communist Revolution of 2020.

Systematic racism…care to site some examples of systematic racism?

If you think about it years ago when rangers signed a player they threw bananas at him get a grip it does matter that’s my opinion and I stick to it .

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Think you are missing a trick here Jackobyte. Various newspapers have covered the more nefarious aspects of BLM, and the following are extracted from the Spectator article of 24/06/2020.

  1. BLM wants to dismantle capitalism (BLMUK fundraiser of 02/06/2020).
  2. Prison and detention centres should be abolished (BLMUK tweet 16/12/2016).
  3. Develop and deliver strategies for the abolition of police (BLMUK fundraiser 02/06/2020).
  4. Churchill is “staunchly racist” (BLMUK facebook page). Arguably, if it was not for Churchill, many of these protestors who rioted, vadalised and looted property would not have had these freedoms to conduct themselves in such a disorderly manner.
    I put it to you, my allegations are not therefore unfounded, and that is why I, and many others, cannot support this movement. I do support the basic tenet that racism is wrong and should be eliminated, but Rangers should not be involving itself in a political movement. What about other political causes eg the genocidal treatment of the Uigher muslims in China, fighting in the Sudan, the Polar ice-caps melting, the outrageous circumstances surrounding the funeral of ex IRA Intelligence officer Bobby Storey, etc. The football Club should have no involvement in any of these causes. Oh, and I have experienced abuse (sectarian, but not racial) with bus windows put in, stones thrown at buses on other occasions, drunken louts spilling out of pubs to hurl verbal abuse and sticking fingers up in varying combinations at departing buses, and having to march past a grouping of around 30 hobbledehoys hurling abuse and waving green and white scarves. I sincerely hope the team comes to its senses and refrains from taking the knee at any of our games, as I believe a huge number of fans have similar views to mine inasmuch as they want capitalism and our police service to remain intact. I strongly suspect most, if not all, our players would think the same which is why it is disingenious for them to show support for the movement.
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Radical change calls for radical ideas. In order to find an acceptable middle ground you first have to consider the alternative where nothing or the complete opposite exists. Unfortunately there are people like you who have no motivation for change as you have never experienced systemic racism and you can’t bring yourself to see it from the other side or believe people who are affected by it on a daily basis. Churchill was a racist as were many people back then, of course his views are unacceptable now that is completely and utterly disconnected from the good work he did fighting the germans, he was a leader. Paedophilia was once accepted behaviour and I’m pretty certain that you will not find one person who thinks that is acceptable now so I am unsure why people turn a blind eye to systemic racism. And JimMcD I have no idea why you even mention the IRA or whatever references to Celtic, you really are not doing yourself any favours as you are coming across as a bigot and I really hope this is a miscommunication on your part, otherwise we can all see where this is going.
Have a nice day.

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No, do your own research

Floyd was cashing a counterfeit $20 dollar note. He had paid for his earlier crimes. Dolores Iburruri (who you quote) was a Spanish Communist who supported Stalin but was a key player in the ill-fated defence against Franco. Her 'You are history, you are legend ’ speech to the departing International Brigades was incredible and her courage immense! However, she totally supported (violent) opposition to injustice so I’m not sure what your point is.

Jackobyte - we seem to be communicating at different levels here as you have singularly failed to answer my main points about the BLM agenda to dismantle capitalism and abolish the police. You have also failed to identify why Rangers should become involved in the BLM protests, and why it should just be that one, and not other ones. In answer to your point “…people like you who have no motivation for change…”, I can confirm you are correct in your assumed assertion that this left wing utopia has no appeal to me, and if your idea of a good country is one which has no police force and no capitalist system then I respectfully suggest you are in the (low) minority. You claim to have no idea why I mentioned the IRA - in the same way that the Uigher muslims, the Sudan and the Polar ice-caps are all subjects and causes many people feel strongly about, they are equally, like the BLM, nothing to do with Rangers and accordingly Rangers should have no involvement in them. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts, and the facts surrounding BLM are outlined in my earlier post. On that basis, I think we must agree to differ.

JimMcD, clearly you didn’t read the first line of my last post if you think I didn’t answer your question. I did answer and I will answer again in exactly the same way - Radical change calls for radical ideas. In order to find an acceptable middle ground you first have to consider the alternative where nothing or the complete opposite exists. Whether you like the answer or not does not mean that I didn’t answer so, again, I think you need to try to stop deflecting and consider alternative ideas of people that have been affected by the thing they are fighting against and you might just want to listen intently rather than spreading your right-wing conservative agenda.

Jackobyte - my final response on this subject. Thanks for confirming my views about the BLM agenda and its supporters. I think you will find it is not just “right wing conservatives” who do not wish to abolish capitalism and the police. The only alternative to capitalism is socialism / communism and this has failed spectacularly throughout the World (eg Venezuala, the former Iron Curtain countries, Russia and China), and if you think that racism doesn’t exist in some of these countries, then perhaps Stalin’s gulags and China’s treatment of certain minorities (Tibet, Uigher muslims) provide good examples. If your sole justification for the aforementioned abolitions is “Radical change calls for radical ideas”, then I suggest you are somewhat lacking in enough detail to convince the “silent majority”. If you think that in this country (I assume you are British), having no police service would eliminate racism, then I am afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land. I do not intend to respond to any more of your posts, as I have nothing further to add to what I have said already, as I have presented my arguments and points in a reasonable way with sufficient justification for each one. In case you are still under any illusions, I am concluding by saying I abhor racism and trust that through education and peer pressure, it will one day be eliminated. As far as I am concerned, the matter is now closed.

It seems by your response that you find it ok for people white or black to pass counterfeit money?
I hope in your lifetime that you or your family are not on the receiving end of people like Floyd?
My point was that the five times in twenty years felon should not have been allowed out to commit more crimes due to there severity putting other innocent people at risk of maybe death?
Maybe you prefer to forgive and turn the other cheek I don’t! But I do respect your right to do so.
On your other comment regarding Delores Iburruri I don’t think I need a history lesson on the great lady!
My Grandfather was an able seaman in WWI and took up the call to go to Spain with other members of our family unfortunately he was severely wounded at Pingarron Hill Jarama and whilst being transferred to a American hospital at Tarancon he was captured and quite simple taken out of the Ambulance and shot that was on the 28/02/1937.
As a family we have never found out our grandfathers last resting place after forty years of searching.
We were informed by the locals that after the war a lot of the dead were dug up and tossed on to the dump with Franco and the Catholic churchs blessing.
At Tarancon graveyard we have put two markers one for all the Scots lads killed at Jarama and one for our grandfather. A promise we made to our father!
This is the first year we have missed a memorial at Tarancon since we erected the markers.
Have a good day.

It’s a shame you’ve chosen this sarcastic and misrepresentative approach, I’m just giving my view. I too have a great interest in the SCW and, indeed, I wrote the Advanced Higher exam paper on it for several years and, in this, I think we have a lot in common.

I don’t approve of passing counterfeit notes and never implied this. It’s not punishable by death and we are unsure if he was aware it was fake.

Your simplistic approach to capitalism or centralist brutal ‘communist’ regimes being the only alternatives is inadequate, however. There are many countries with more compassionate approaches that embrace mixed systems. The most ‘socialist’ government this country ever had introduced the NHS amongst other great achievements and was voted out by a minority of voters in 51.

On Floyd himself, I understood that more recently he had been involved positively with his community, including discouraging young people from following his path. However, this particular, and all too common incident was merely the catalyst.

My highest praise to your grandfather and all those brave volunteers whom I genuinely believe were fighting against right-wing oppression (notably, a disproportionate amount of communists and left-wing comrades). My point was that La Pasionaria was a believer in those very regimes that you criticise and supported Stalinist Communism even after they destroyed the popular revolution in 37, arresting and executing their fellow anti-fascist compatriots. Indeed, the International Brigades were recruited by Stalin-controlled Comintern. I am delighted Iburruri returned and regained her seat after the death of Franco but she is not without blame.

On a general note, I am sure there are many pushing their own agenda and trying to hijack the BLM movement but it is an attempt at achieving equality and equity. At the moment, it is clear, even statistically, that Black Lives Don’t Matter as much as whites in the USA or UK. They are less likely to do well in education, they are poorer, they are disproportionately likely to be victims of crime, they are more likely to be arrested and convicted and receive longer sentences than whites for the same offences. Health and housing and a huge variety of other areas also bear witness to this. Meanwhile we haven’t even moved on by stopping celebrating slavers.

Emails and written texts can sometimes appear more disrespectful that the author intends. Let me reassure you that I respect your opinion but respectfully strongly disagree. Our Black players and their colleagues believe there is injustice and are acting peacefully to bring change. I don’t think that should be grounds for criticism.

Regards,
Robert

Robert
I’m deeply sorry that you feel my response was sarcastic and misrepresented believe me it was not my intention.
I have only asked the question why the BLM brigade used an unscrupulous character like Floyd as their stalwart when there are millions of great black examples out there to show the way forward so we must agree to differ after all do we not all have black genes in us?

My father used to tell his brood that if we did not come from Africa we we’re aliens to this world?

Years later my partner had my genealogy done for me by Oxford University!
When it came back it showed not to my surprise that my genes came from Ethiopia!

If you believe Darwin there could not been many white faces coming down from the trees in then days.

Oxford explained that my genes may have travelled from Africa through Europe maybe over the ice cap and into what England was called in then days or over into Ireland and into Jocky land that way, obviously that took tens and tens of thousands of years and and getting whiter and whiter by the years due to the cold and misty weather!
There was me thinking that I was a nice Glasgow lad?

Thank Christ for easy jet these days.

On your views on equality and education I am in the same mindset as yourself but using past history as an example it will take us hundreds of years to get there.

How long did it take this country to stop putting children up chimneys, deporting a man for stealing a rabbit for food or hanging a man for killing a deer press ganging men and boys into the navy, having children in factories till they dropped I could go on all day and not mention the land clearances in Scotland or the mines and textiles industries all around the UK. Or, about the injustices put on the white race in this country maybe we woke up and said “we matter” or gave the woman the vote sooner?

There are no new idea’s but plenty of auld ones to be recycled and learned by BLM if they are to succeed.

And what about the church are they too afraid to tell the masses that the man Jesus was a black Jew of 5.6 proportion who only wanted to be a king not a 6 ft plus blue eyes white Adonis as presented by the church of Rome… Now there’s a miricle?

If you look at the churches history they have probably killed more people than all the plagues put together, murdering women because they could put a few herbs together to cure the sick ECT ECT ECT calling them witch’s when will they finally show us the records of what went on during the dark ages or maybe do a tour package for the Scots to see where the homosexual Bonny Prince charlie is interred BPC is the only non Pope buried in the Vatican via his cardinal boyfriend. After all homosexuality is not a problem in this day and age.

If we want the truth then it should it be taught at school not hidden away?
Unfortunately the truth cannot be handled by most people in the world today?

Note : All these Europeans that fought in the crusades must be rolling about in their graves after killing all those black men who may have been descendants of auld blue eyes?

You touched on the NHS?
In my opinion we have not had a NHS in this country since the government of the day handed the whole shooting match over to trusts, whose trustees are hyping up the cost of medicine’s and paying their self’s three times what the prime minister’s salary is.
Profits and tax payers money going to who knows where?
It certainly not going in the NHS staffs pockets.

All staff black and white workers working in the NHS are being exploited by these trusts and it has taken a pandemic to open people’s eyes to all the injustices incurred by these brave people over the generations.

I have always asked myself this question for years?

I was born in a one room flat (outside toilet) in Bridgeton in 1948 into a family of a mother and father and an older sister (who died recently of the virus) the same year as the NHS was born it was also the same year as the Windrush people arrived in the UK.

At that time children between 6 month and 2 years we’re dying of rickets IE lack of vitamin D which you get from milk liver ECT but most of all the sun.

The biggest killer before cancer was recognized in them days was tuberculosis affectionately know to Glaswegians as TB which gained rapidly by close contact in damp living areas with little ventilation spread by droplets from the mouth just as the Covid Virus today. Do we ever learn?
Note: I lost my mother at 6 years old to Tuberculosis.

There was no work for the unwashed in them days so most of the country were means tested and given handouts to survive.

So my dilemma is this who was the brain of Britain in the British government that invited these poor black immigrants into this country to suffer the slings and arrow of outrageous misfortunes that eighty percent of the unwashed we’re suffer all over the UK and Northern Ireland, at least they we’re dry and had the “sun” where they came from?
I think the one word which covers it is “exploitation”

Maybe we should be saying “Humanity Matters” as when you put BLM,WLM,ECT ECT you are back to square one by classifying and segregating people.

Have a good day
Andy Crawford (Granny Like A Small Glass Of Whisky) spells Glasgow.

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Nope, I am with you all the way on this one.

I totally agree with you.But as you are always told,politics and religion shouldn’t be in sport,celtic have said all of these things about Rangers,all lives matter,if giving a thought for every life makes me a racist,then I am a racist,all lives matter.

Chaps. Capitalism doesn’t work for the majority of people, race or no race. Folk only want a fairer society. When people are being laid off so shareholder dividends are maintained, that’ll become evident.

I’m a Rangers fan because of the jersey. I also believe some socialism could go a long way (what do you think Club 1872 is? - redistributed wealth to protect something we love)

Black Lives Matter. It’s not hard to say. Imagine some guys rocked into Scotland, loaded everyone on ships in chains and took them to Russia. Forced them to work, speak Russian and raped the women for the next 250 years. Finally, the descendants get freed but live in abject poverty for the next 100 years, unable to buy property. In the final 50 years the ethnic Scots get the vote but are twice as likely to get popped by a cop. Oh, the and the Russians who enslaved Scots are celebrated as great capitalists while your people are still poor.

Would you not be a bit pissed off?

As Rangers we need to rise above partizan politics. Fairness. That’s the only word that matters. Is it fair? BLM is essentially about fairness and we should support it.